Thieves from any of the old school games such as Labyrinth Lord, B/X Essential, Basic Fantasy, Swords and Wizardry, all of the other retroclones, and original editions have all suffered from two main problems. The first one being the horrible d% progression skill system. A d% skill system isn't bad in itself but it is the starting values and progression that that really handicap the class Thief. The second main issue is the Thief's ability to survive as they tend to be rather squishy out of the box. There has been countless proposed alternates including getting rid of the class together and this option had caused many heated debates.
I think the class adds flavor and really helps the party be more efficient at certain tasks (and attract less unwanted attention). They also help parties solve certain obstacles in more creative ways.
This is all do to their specialization but what they are suppose to be good at they are not, especially at early levels.
Before I go further, this is whatever everyone has a chance of doing on a mundane level;
I think the class adds flavor and really helps the party be more efficient at certain tasks (and attract less unwanted attention). They also help parties solve certain obstacles in more creative ways.
This is all do to their specialization but what they are suppose to be good at they are not, especially at early levels.
Before I go further, this is whatever everyone has a chance of doing on a mundane level;
- Hear Noise: 1 in 6 chance, demi-humans have a 2 in 6 chance, Thieves start at 2 in 6 and improve to 5 in 6 by level 11.
- Expert Miner: Dwarves detect slanting passages, traps, shifting walls, and new construction with a 2 in 6 chance.
- Secret Doors: Anyone has a 1 in 6 chance to find a secret door, elves have a 2 in 6 chance.
- Hiding: Halflings have a 2 in 6 chance to remain hidden in dungeons.
- Opening Doors: Anyone has a 2 in 6 chance opening a stuck door, modified by Strength.
- Finding Traps: Anyone has a 1 in 6 chance to find a trap (non-magicial), dwarves have a 2 in 6 chance.
- Lighting Fires: Anyone had a 2 in 6 chance lighting a torch/fire in one round with a tinderbox.
- Foraging/Huning: There is a 1 in 6 chance that anyone can find enough food (suitable animals to eat, etc.) For one day.
B/X Essentials
Swords and Wizardry
The Thief skills are commonly misunderstood in theory and execution as anyone can attempt some of them and even though some skills are cross pollinated the Theif possesses a higher level of training. This training makes the Thief more effective and almost magical in execution.
Climb Walls: This skill relates to climbing sheer surfaces and no one else can do that.
Delicate Tasks and Traps: This encompasses things like pick pocketing and disarming traps. It is a speciality skill and the run of the mill classes don't have access to it.
Hear Sounds: A universal skill. Thieves are better at it and this skill improves in the x in 6 style.
Hide in Shadows: This gets confused with move silently or Stealth which anyone can attempt but the Thief can effective become invisible in corners and at night.
Open Locks: A specific and trained skill and other classes don't have access to it.
Of all the alternatives I have seen in "official printed" material, five stand out far above the others:
1. The Thief from White Box: Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game by Seattle Hill Games. This using an increasing all encompassing Thievery x in 6 die that scales with level.
2. The Specialist from Lamentations of a Flame Princess. The Specialist gets skill points to put in various skills using the x in 6 system. They are the only class that gets skill points and these points increase every level. The playtest rules actually make me like this version a lot more as it changes the skills to 1d6+x and you need to get a total of 6 more.
3. The Thief Alternate found in Black Pudding #4 by James V. West.
4. The Thief from Dungeon Crawl Classics has a scaling bonus to the skills and the add to the d20 roll vs. DC.
5. Delving Deeper is actually becoming one of my favorite printed options. The Thief succeeds on all related skills with a 3 in 6 change which means anything 3+ on a d6 is considered a success. This skill does not increase but the class starts out really good at skullduggery and then at higher levels there is still a chance of failure to keeps things dynamic.
Out of all the house ruled proposed alternatives to the skills I have seen or used there are a couple that win the Gold Medal and are extremely viable and even clever.
Option 1*: Use the Ability Check method (which is d20 roll under relative ability and I happen to love this mechanic in general) with advantage. Then at each level (even the first) you get to choose a skill and that skill gets a +1 bonus (so when that specific skill is used the ability in question is considered one point higher for the purpose of the roll). Thieves also begin play with a +4 in Climb Walls because even the original Thief was so good at this. This makes up for the fact that attributes do not increase in these games.
* This is the one I have historically used the most.
Option 2*: For a more modern take (the theory of proficiency), you roll a d20 + ability modifier + Level vs. a DC 15. This is a static DC and is not meant to be modified. Thieves receive an innate bonus of +10 to the Climb Walls checks as they are amazing at that right out of the box.
* I have not used this method yet but I think it is smooth and would really well.
As for the squishyness of the Thief, the alternate is really simple. Just increase their hit die to d6/d8. Then you can use whatever house rules you want in regards to bonus hp and/or max HD at first level.
What always bugged me about using these skills in BX was that Moldvay stuck with crappy thief skill percentages, but then gave us the now-classic ability check (ability save). So if you had a DM who didn't understand it all or who was trying to go rules as written, the thief can get hosed.
ReplyDeleteExample: Nimbus the Nimble is a 7th level Thief. He and Rigby the Righteous (cleric, duh) are trying to hide from a passing gang of orks. The DM has Nimbus make a skill check. His skill is 45%. He rolls 55, failing. Since Rigby doesn't have that skill, the young DM refers to page B60 (There's always a chance) and asks Rigby to make a Dexterity save. Rigby just happens to have rolled a 10 for his Dex. He rolls his d20 and gets 8. He's successful!
What's wrong with this picture? Rigby has a 50% chance of success as a cleric where the 7th level thief only has 45%. Hell, when they were level 1 Rigby would still have 50% and the actual thief would be at a pathetic 10% (less than a damn 1 in 6 chance!).
But I rant. This is known. This is one of the most egregious, unforgivable artifacts of classic D&D and has forced so many of us to jump through flaming mental hoops to somehow make it work without inventing crazy new rules systems.
I totally forgot about that dichotomy in B/X and as you pointed out, that is a serious design flaw that never really got updated or revised for sometime.
DeleteI know your comment and my post was about the Thief, but that same sentiment goes for any of the classes that use the % skills (Assassin, Barbarian, Ranger, etc).
I agree the d6 stuff is not very granular but the more I think about it, the more I really like the 3+ for all skills for classes that have % skills.
I also know that Gary Gygax used 3d6 for skills to roll under the said Attribute in question. Though with that, it is harder to use an advantage system.
This is one of those areas where having various sub-systems can bite you in the butt. I like the sub-systems, for the most part, because they add flavor. But you gotta be careful that one doesn't accidentally destroy the other.
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